The Job Files: Grace O'Neill, writer and podcaster
"Most of my career until recently has been defined by a sense of outside perception, achieving goals that follow a hierarchical narrative of success."
Welcome to ‘The Job Files’ by Say It Anyway. If you are new here, this series features conversations with inspiring women across different industries, focusing specifically on their successful careers. Enjoy!
When I first came up with the idea for this series, I made a list of my dream interviewees. Grace O’Neill’s name was at the very top.
Over the past few years, I’ve developed something of a parasocial relationship with Grace. I listen to her podcast After Work Drinks religiously and have been a longtime admirer of her writing in ELLE, Side-Note, Harper’s Bazaar, the list goes on… Basically, without sounding completely creepy, I just think she’s the coolest.
Grace’s career speaks for itself. In 2023, she spearheaded the relaunch of ELLE Australia as editor, and alongside that, she and co-host Isabelle Truman have cultivated a devoted following for After Work Drinks (of which I am one). More recently, Grace launched Goodbye Kyle, a cultural commentary podcast on the Bravo-verse co-hosted with ’s Kate Lancaster, and has started her own Substack —all while juggling a number of other projects. Oh, and she’s about to have her first baby.
When I reached out to Grace about being part of this series, she mentioned she was due to give birth that week. In a true testament to her insane work ethic, she got the questions back to me within 24 hours.
Here are some highlights…
On her podcast…
The podcast has seen Isabelle and I through many major life changes—breakups, moving to different countries, changing careers, getting married and having children. Our greatest asset, I think, is that we’re very adaptable, and we’ve always taken the approach that if we’re not having fun recording the podcast, the audience probably isn’t having fun listening to it.
On her tenure at ELLE…
My ambition was for ELLE to be a kind of incubator for the massive well of creative talent I saw emerging out of Australia after the pandemic. The calibre of photographers, stylists, artists, filmmakers, actors, and musicians is just phenomenal… I learned a huge amount in that role, about advocating for your creative vision, trusting your instincts, managing a team, and many seemingly boring but extremely important things like handling budgets and managing production schedules. It was a wonderful experience.
On the trajectory of her career…
I think most of my career until recently has been defined by a sense of outside perception, achieving goals that follow a hierarchical narrative of success. There’s been something about turning 30, and having a kid, that has provided this deep clarity about what I want my life to look like, which is far more driven by the quality of work I am producing than anything else. All I want is to make really good work.
Introduce yourself…
My name is Grace O’Neill, I’m a writer and podcaster.
Describe what you do for work…
I write for a living, so sometimes that means contributing to titles like British Vogue, Harper’s BAZAAR, GQ, Financial Times How To Spend It, The Guardian, T Magazine etc. I also publish my own essays on Substack. I host the cultural commentary podcasts After Work Drinks and Goodbye Kyle, and work as a copywriter, consultant, and commercial screenwriter for clients like Cartier, Prada, Mugler, and Hennessey.
Growing up, what career did you envision for yourself?
I was fortunate to have always known that I wanted to write. My late grandmother used to tell a story about how she once called from England when I was about eight and asked how a short story I was writing was going. I very precociously responded, “I’m actually working on a novel now” (20 years on, and it’s still yet to materialise). When I was a teenager, I desperately wanted to be a filmmaker—which I still harbour quiet aspirations of achieving—but I’ve always thought getting paid to write was the benchmark for success.
What did you study at University?
I moved from Perth to Sydney when I was 17 to study Media and Communications at the University of Sydney. I majored in film studies, I believe.
What was your first professional job?
I interned at Australian Vogue in my second year of university. My first full-time job was at Harper’s BAZAAR on the digital team when I finished university.
In 2018, you launched the podcast After Work Drinks alongside your best friend and co-host, Isabelle Truman. What inspired the idea, and did you anticipate it resonating the way it has?
As with all great ideas it was a half-baked concept first concocted over a bottle of wine. Podcasting was just starting to take off and we wanted to ride the wave. The first episodes are, I imagine, very dodgy (we recorded in a great little studio in Chinatown which is a more professional set-up than we have now) but we felt our way through. We had a pretty strong listenership straight away and were booking advertising after our first month, so we knew we were onto something.
Over the years, AWD has built a devoted following (myself included!). Did you and Isabelle have a deliberate strategy for growing the podcast, or did its success unfold more organically?
The podcast has seen Isabelle and I through many major life changes—breakups, moving to different countries, changing careers, getting married and having children. Our greatest asset, I think, is that we’re very adaptable, and we’ve always taken the approach that if we’re not having fun recording the podcast, the audience probably isn’t having fun listening to it. Our early episodes were very much informed by other successful shows at the time, they were very structured, very focused on pop culture. We still like a good celebrity scandal, but now we tend to just get on the mic and talk. We live in different countries and have very hectic careers so the podcast has organically become the only time in the week where we actually get time to catch up. Sometimes we’ll talk about films, or beauty products, or dating, or friendship, it’s very organic. We have a very cool audience who have adapted with us.
In 2023, you were announced as the Editor leading the relaunch of ELLE Australia. Can you share what that journey was like—what excited you most, any challenges you faced, and how it all came together?
I have such deep reverence for legacy media titles like ELLE and it was a huge privilege to relaunch that magazine in Australia. Pulling together the first issue was a huge undertaking and I’m very proud of the work that the team created. My ambition was for ELLE to be a kind of incubator for the massive well of creative talent I saw emerging out of Australia after the pandemic. The calibre of photographers, stylists, artists, filmmakers, actors, and musicians is just phenomenal. I love that our first cover was Sophie Wilde—to me, she is the next Australian superstar actress—shot by Jordan Malane, a very talented young photographer in what was his first cover. We also featured the work of creatives like Phoebe Wolfe, Diana Reid, Jamie Heath, Bri Lee, Elfy Scott, Angourie Rice, Holly Gibson, Ellie Louise Coker… I learned a huge amount in that role, about advocating for your creative vision, trusting your instincts, managing a team, and many seemingly boring but extremely important things like handling budgets and managing production schedules. It was a wonderful experience.
Can you tell us about a time when you “took a leap” career-wise?
I would say going freelance when I moved to the UK in 2019 was a leap—I arrived in London with no contacts and no work lined up, and then Covid hit, so in retrospect it was all probably quite ill-advised. But I’ve always carried around a delusional sense that everything is going to work out and it pretty much has. I actually believe delusion is a very important element of success—but perhaps that’s a topic for a So Darling essay.
Fast forward to today, you’ve just launched your new Substack, So Darling–where you just interviewed with Babygirl’s Halina Reijn! Are personally driven projects something you’re hoping to prioritise moving forward?
I like Substack. I was reticent to launch one because it started to feel a bit like every man and his dog had one, but what appeals to me is having a place where I can push the quality of my writing without the constraints of the current media landscape like tight turnarounds, short wordcounts, and the need for reactive, news-driven angles. I don’t think there’s a publication on earth (perhaps rightly so) that would allow me to write 4,000 words on Sky Ferreira’s return to music, or an essay on Anita Lane. Selfishly, the older I get the lower my appetite is for writing pieces that I don't particularly connect with, so having an outlet where I can follow my curiosity, and interview people who genuinely excite me, is very attractive. And the feedback so far tells me that people are looking for original, long-form writing with perspective.
What does your typical 9 to 5 look like at present?
I’m about to have my first child so everything’s a little up in the air at the moment. But usually I spend as much of the day as I can writing, either on work projects or personal writing projects like screenplays and a novel I’ve been slaving away at for a couple of years now.
What is the best part about what you do for work?
Getting paid to write is the greatest privilege in the world.
What is the worst part about what you do for work?
You have to be incredibly disciplined, with your time, with your energy, with the quality of work you expect of yourself. I hate being disciplined.
Looking back on your impressive career journey, has there ever been a time that you felt lost? If so, how did you overcome that?
I think most of my career until recently has been defined by a sense of outside perception, achieving goals that follow a hierarchical narrative of success. There’s been something about turning 30, and having a kid, that has provided this deep clarity about what I want my life to look like, which is far more driven by the quality of work I am producing than anything else. All I want is to make really good work.
What has been your biggest career highlight or “pinch me” moment?
Interviewing Naomi Campbell in Paris. I waited about four hours for our interview and when she finally showed up she was wearing a floor-length cape. She descended the staircase at the Ritz like a goddess and then, I swear to God, she bumped into Ali fucking Macgraw and they started chatting. I had to trail behind them like a moron. We got to the courtyard and she turned around and looked at me, lit a cigarette and said ‘You have until I finish this’.
Do you have any career regrets?
None! Not my style.
If you could give one piece of advice to someone trying to follow your career path, what would it be?
We live in a culture that is very obsessed with output and with measurable, tangible metrics of success. This can be a smokescreen for what is the point of working in creative industries, which is to create good work. If you hunker down, drown out the noise, and focus on doing the best work you can, whatever it is you do, you will be successful. It just might take you a little longer to get to where you want to go.
Is there a quote you live by?
Be so good they can’t ignore you.
In an ideal world, what do the next five years look like for you?
I would like to publish a novel and direct a film.
Quick Fire Questions
Your five dream dinner party guests… The three Davids: Bowie, Byrne and Lynch (RIP), Elizabeth Taylor for the glamour (I just finished Roger Lewis’ brilliant, demented ‘Erotic Vagrancy’ and am working my way through her filmography, I have Taylor on the brain), and Nina Simone for, well, everything.
Favourite piece of clothing in your wardrobe… This vintage Chanel jacket from 2001 that I picked up in Paris a couple of years ago, also this great vintage Saint Laurent velvet bomber jacket from the ‘70s that I got from Rellik in Notting Hill.
A beauty product you can’t live without… At the moment it’s Gaviscon. Sexy.
The best compliment you have ever received… I was seated next to Sophie Fontanel at a fashion week dinner in Stockholm and she started speaking to me in French. When (to my enduring mortification) I had to tell her I could only speak English she said, “Oh, but you look so French!” This is, frankly, the only compliment I’m ever interested in receiving.
The top of your bucket list… Direct a film, write a novel. I have a list of life goals that has slowly been whittled down to these two, plus “love your family, appreciate your friends, and be in nature”. I’m a broken record, désolée!
I loved this Lucia! As a fellow long-term AWD girlie, I agree that Grace is very cool and a forever inspiration.